pride isn't being "hijacked" when it marches alongside other liberation movements - rather, it's being hijacked by white middle-class gays (the people who have the least to worry about) whenever it refuses to allow such movements to march
for queer disabled people, of course queer liberation includes disabled liberation
for queer Palestinians, of course queer liberation includes Palestinian liberation
the only people who can't see why things like this are important are people who lack the empathy to see themselves in the shoes of others... or, if nothing else, listen to them
@kittybecca I read you and I agree that I had a mistake in my thinking..
"for queer Palestinians, of course queer liberation includes Palestinian liberation"
that's of course a very good reason to march together.
@distel yeah, and what gets missed in a lot of these smears of BDS is that it's ultimately a Palestinian-led movement, and the only one that invites the participation of the rest of the world
they're asking one thing from people: that they end complicity in their oppression. they're not asking to be saved; they just want people to stop helping Israel oppress them
@distel i'm glad you're thinking more on this
@kittybecca yeah, stuff's complicated. I could try to explain myself why what you said wasn't obvious to me from the beginning, but I have too little facts and too many subjective impressions to get on someones nerves with that.
I think ending israeli oppression is a justified and good thing, I just don't know how I should ignore stuff they write on their website that is crossing a line, for me.
@distel can you explain some of what you think is crossing a line?
@distel (when you get back obviously and if you feel like it)
hey, I'm back.
for me, the most important point is the very existence of israel as a jewish state. I don't believe in states and I don't believe in states who are connected with a particular religion, but in that case + the context, other stuff outweighs my usual opposition. and so I think in this time, at this moment, it is important that we agree it needs to exist.
this is actually the line that's being crossed there.
BDS crosses it by promoting a one state of palestine.
there are many more things I think are problematic, but the main thing that I can't go with is the one state solution that would mean israel would cease to exist.
(without a plan in place how people would get along with each other and how the jewish population would also have a place in that territory. there has been too much cruelty for too long to just think everything would be fine. if people do give this thought, I haven't seen it, at least not on their websites.)
@kittybecca I understand that people who have other concerns right now would not plan ahead for such an unrealistic thing, and I would not ask it of them.
but for me it's necessary to think about it if one advocates for a "one state of palestine".
also I think calling israel "european settler colonialism" on their website is.. wow. maybe I don't understand how they mean that, but these are 2 different things for me with very different contexts.
empathy is definitely a "yikes" kind of word for autistic people, because of the whole "you lack empathy" BS. but i know what you mean, and agree
@stackingstones sorry about that
@kittybecca no problem. thanks. :)
@kittybecca yt middle-class cis gays had hijacked pride well before i went to my first one (well, two, each in a different city) back in ’96
@kittybecca which is to say: they've controlled the shit they never created, and they've done so for a very long time
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