wild how colonialism in the americas begins literally right after the ethnic cleansing of iberia
@kittybecca That's a little uncanny. . . i'd never quite made that connection. The crusade just kept going west, huh?
@kittybecca yeah what's the deal with dudes who are like "well we were christianity-ing just fine and then the JEWS showed up" baffling revisionism
@kittybecca that's a fascinating parallel. one I sometimes think about as well: Liberia, which is a settler state founded by an American abolitionist society that deported escaped slaves back to Africa. the Americo-Liberians essentially formed a settler bourgeoisie and carved out their own state that, while it was never colonized by Europeans, fucked over the indigenous folks who lived there as well.
@melissasage someone else had recently mentioned Liberia to me as a parallel
@melissasage unless that was you and i just got confused
@kittybecca it's possible but I don't think it was me!
@kittybecca I cannot emphasize how oversimplified this analysis is but I generally think that the Liberian project is one that Americans, Jews, and American Jews really ought to know more about than we do
@melissasage definitely. i'd learned a bit about it but never made the connection. should look into it more
@kittybecca This is really making me think... I'm not sure they're directly comparable just given the timescales of each, but the way the nation states retroactively justified themselves after having already gained hegemony over their regions is veeery similar.
I dunno, I'm having a lot of thoughts about this and can't really convey them coherently right now :')
@GreenandBlack Regarding timescale, there's a myth that after the year 70 CE, Jews were completely expelled from the land. It's not true; Jews left in waves. There were three more rebellions prior to the Arab invasion, and many Jews left in the aftermath of each of these. While still others had to leave as a result of the Crusades, etc.
@GreenandBlack 70 CE was when Jews were banned from Jerusalem.
@GreenandBlack imo part of the problem is that for a lot of people, the Reconquista looks like at least a partially good thing. when it really wasn't. Christians had no more of a right to be in Iberia than Muslims and Jews did. a Christian nation was carved out of the peninsula as a result of ethnic cleansing, which proceeded to take credit for everything that had been the result of multicultural interaction, such as the Spanish language itself.
@GreenandBlack for that matter, a caliphate in Spain didn't have less of a right to exist than a Visigothic Christian Kingdom. both were immigrant kingdoms. fuck kingdoms and theocracies in general, but the cleansing that went on during that period to create a Catholic nation is absolutely extraordinary.
@kittybecca But see here's the thing, the creation of the 'catholic nation' only really began after the reconquista had already been in motion for hundreds of years, when the feudal monarchies in place used religious nationalism to retroactively justify their existence. The conception of the reconquista as a crusade is actually a product of 19th century spanish nationalism.
This is why I feel zionism may have more in common with the ideology that drove the Inquisition, but I see parallels with both tbh
Every time I start drawing parallels between the formation and foundational myths of nation states they seem even more fake than they did when I started. Now I'm thinking about similar parallels with the foundations of the UK and US aaaand I'm going cross-eyed
@kittybecca In hindsight I think the parallel between zionism and the reconquista is even more apt than when I started writing this
@kittybecca this was some hard shit to read about whilst doing first stages of thesis
@ArtistMarciaX i can imagine; it's always hard for me to read about... tangentially, is your thesis available online?
@kittybecca no bc it's not finished yet. I briefly discussed the relationship with jews and moors in connecting to Spanish ideas of blood purity leading to Casta in Latin America
@ArtistMarciaX i understand. i'd love to read it at some point when it's finished. good luck with it. all of these are things i'm hoping to look more into.
@kittybecca the Spanish archive cite isn't the most user friendly but you may find things there. I've used it for Puerto Rico and laws regarding tainos. It's.. Alot tho. Heavy. I will share if uni publishes
@ArtistMarciaX thanks, that archive is going to be very helpful, i searched and bookmarked it
@kittybecca there's a few portals if I can find them again I'll link. For other euro archives
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